Same old. All tried before and mostly didn't work but cost a fortune. My particular grouse is with the "care in the community" mantra - amusingly my helpful spelling checker changed this to cartoon community, which might be apt). As detailed in my book "Mad Medicine" I have tried outreach clinics. They are inefficient in every regard and cause professional isolation. Are Tesco Expresses cheaper than the big superTescos? Er, no. And are all these superhealthclinics going to have all the expensive on site facilities like MRI or even X-ray? See my book for the financial and personnel lunacy of that.
I am eager to know what economists make of the government's approach, which appears to focus on the reduction of the need for health care by employing a range of easily available genetic (and other) tests and then employing a preventative intervention.
For instance, you would need to pay for the treatment of numerous people for 5 yrs with a statin to prevent one hospital admission (NNT).
Statins vary widely in cost, but many are over £7 a month or maybe £400 for 5 years.
An admission for treatment of a heart attack is about £4000. The number needed to treat to prevent a heart attack over 5 years would have to be less than 10 for it to become economic.
nobody studies drugs long term Brian: you seem agnostic on statins; they are another Pfarma fraud; these type of drug are given to the healthy; for a very short time; to those likely on no other drugs; then promptly certified as "Safe" to give to others taking up to to 10 other pills; and no-one studies the effects for long, long periods, to see the slow cognitive decline; to see the aches and pains statins so fiercely produce; the T2 diabetes etc etc
remember the formula; test on the young and healthy; then promptly claim safety and unleash unmonitored long-term on the ill and elderly;
Certainly sceptical of all purported preventative meds, including 'vaccines'. RCTs designed, implemented intrepretated by pharma the answer is predictable.
The RCT for statins for people with diabetes cost $24 million 2000 price level - there is no way that is not going pharma's way.
Don't forget statins don't prevent CVD - as the literature suggests they only reduce the risk. NHS very handy with their words eg prevent, safe, effective, prevents transmission others would call it dishonesty.
They reduce the relative risk by 50%. If the baseline risk is 5% then the absolute risk reduction is 2.5%, unless maths has followed the authors of this report through the looking glass. So not significant!
I believe you would have to give 5 years treatment to 10 people to cause one case of muscle inflamation, 40 people to prevent a heart attack, 50 people to cause a case of diabetes, 80 people to prevent one death and over 100 people to prevent one stroke.
Malcolm Kendrick wrote out the data: and for doing that, the Daily Mail attacked him; and in return got roundly sued for their article and found guilty, paying Dr Kendrick much cash for what they said; from memory, if someone took a statin for 5 yrs, Dr Kendrick suggested from data it might assure living a day or so longer; how one calculates that is beyond the wit of most people.
Interesting paper. It does make a presumption of benefit by lowering cholesterol but as I have said often this is simply an epiphenomenon (why? because drugs better at lowering cholesterol don't achieve better results with heart disease and anyway the statin effect is almost certainly because they are anti-inflammatory). Cholesterol deposition is not dependent on blood levels but occurs as part of a disordered healing process post-inflammation.
And there's a major caveat: "Virtually all of the major statin studies were paid for and conducted by their respective pharmaceutical company. A long history of misrepresentation of data and occasionally fraudulent reporting of data suggests that these results are often much more optimistic than subsequent data produced by researchers and parties that do not have a financial stake in the results. These additional studies may however take years. Also, harm from these drugs is difficult to predict, partly because harms are often difficult to anticipate and are often poorly tracked. Such findings often come up years after new drugs have been on the market."
"Virtually all of the major statin studies were paid for and conducted by their respective pharmaceutical company.
A long history of
... misrepresentation of data
...and occasionally fraudulent reporting of data
.. suggests that these results are often much more optimistic than subsequent data produced by researchers and parties that do not have a financial stake in the results.
These additional studies may however take years.
Also, harm from these drugs is difficult to predict, partly because harms are often difficult to anticipate and are often poorly tracked. Such findings often come up years after new drugs have been on the market.""
...... layman's interpretation: don't trust a word these crooks say .......
Prevention - I see as code for more 'vaccines' nothing to do with Marmot type social determinants for health. Japan is on to saRNA - self amplifying RNA, apparently cheaper to make then use our bodes as manufacturing plants,
Clare Craig talk sets out the figures for mRNA as per September 2022, below, eg 230 over 80's vaccinated to prevent 1 death. She states that UKHSA using their own calculations came to the same conclusion in October 2022 - why wasn't the rollout stopped? I suggest the answer is commercial pressures on the Govt. Pharma can leave, patients can't. The conclusion I come to is to be even more careful of the source of my health advice, and I thought I was already selective !
' How many people would need to be vaccinated to prevent a single covid labelled death during the Delta wave?
Good grief, the Health minister is employing graduates who use AI to compose their theses to write the 10 year plan!
The plan for NHS dentistry is even more vague and confusing as it involves 3 year shackles to the legs of graduates ( who are already paying for their studies ) to employ them in fictitious NHS practices that don't exist and to allow dental therapists to diagnose ( which is beyond their scope of practice currently, so even more bonkers than physician associates in medicine). I'm just relieved I'm retired and I'm feeling sympathy for those poor souls still at the coal face!
It's the same old bigtec will ride to the rescue again, and with AI (whatever that actually is) those set to profit from it will further bombard our poor (as in totally inept) politicians tasked it seems with keeping us healthy.
I mean we're all human beings who have the same immune systems which we know all about and stand to suffer from the same pathogens which again we know all about., courtesy of Pasteur, Koch, Rockefeller and bigpharma.
It wouldn't be so bad if those pesky pathogens actually behaved in the way accepted experts and bigpharma say they do but the reality is they do not - see the Riddle series. Unfortunately no politician seems able to grasp this hugely important and fundamental fact.
For AI to work even in the way these idiots intend, it will be necessary for there to be universal health passports detailing all your medical records/vaccine status. But it won't work simply because our knowledge of disease and human behaviour is poorly understood and even worse, misunderstood.
And as for predictive health based on genetic tests it seems no account has been taken of epigenetics? (copyright to Doorless Carp on that one).
Definitely nothing new, nor anything that was ever done successfully. The lack of success isnt helped by lack of long term investment or something newer and shinier coming along. I remember hearing presentation on "working upstream" to save or prevent, being presented 20 odd years ago. Early interventions that have worked have been sacrificed by the constant reforms and professional rivalries. The real growth in the NHS appears to be administration and managers.
Wes Streeting is a genius. He has transformed the "NHS plan is working , but send more money" message into "NHS plan is NOT working, but send more money". As Governor Pappy O'Donnell said to Everett McGill in O Brother, Where Art Thou? - he'll go far!
[He's also a creep that you wouldn't buy a used car from.]
Don't worry, geezers, Wes - he of the vituperative and 'hateful' Twitter messages - will soon move on to the next step up the greasy pole of politics when he takes over from the lachrymose and bag-eyed Complaints clerk, Rach.
all we can do is laugh at these truly terrible people; it really strikes me: we could laugh 20 yrs ago at their folly and stupidity; now we somehow cannot challenge their absurdity; here 20+ yrs ago Bird and Fortune mocked the military: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nohGiQmOxlc we could laugh 25yrs ago: now we blindly bow to false gods; that woke soldiers can defeat others; oh, OK .......
I am laughing but hoping to see these criminals prosecuted. Oh just saw a pig fly by….what hope is there once any faith in democracy is totally defunct.
thanks guy; crazed ramblings of the intellectually bankrupt; word salads of nonsense; keep ignoring the central issues; keep creating further dysyhealth; keep on fattening the population as pig and cattle farmers fatten their livestock; (corn and carbs); then keep advocating this food (corn and carbs) as paradoxically healthy! Go on, you know it makes sense!!
the Wizard of OZ could not have dreamt up a worse scenario. Why on earth politicians fiddle with things which are beyond their ken, the Lord only knows. Looking at the health secretaries for the past 5+ years, makes you understand why the NHS is creaking at the foundations, for goodness sake find some General P's and let them loose.
Same old. All tried before and mostly didn't work but cost a fortune. My particular grouse is with the "care in the community" mantra - amusingly my helpful spelling checker changed this to cartoon community, which might be apt). As detailed in my book "Mad Medicine" I have tried outreach clinics. They are inefficient in every regard and cause professional isolation. Are Tesco Expresses cheaper than the big superTescos? Er, no. And are all these superhealthclinics going to have all the expensive on site facilities like MRI or even X-ray? See my book for the financial and personnel lunacy of that.
Keep calm and carry on. Or panic.
I am aghast and can only say to Mr Streeting (as we are obviously speaking the same language.)
“Thrippsy pillivinx,Inky tinky pobblebockle abblesquabs? — Flosky! beebul trimble flosky! — Okul scratchabibblebongibo, viddle squibble tog-a-tog, ferrymoyassity amsky flamsky ramsky damsky crocklefether squiggs. Flinkywisty pommSlushypipp (Edward Lear, letter to Evelyn Baring, 1862)”
Nordquist, Richard. "Gibberish." ThoughtCo, Apr. 30, 2025, thoughtco.com/gibberish-in-language-terms-1690785.
I am eager to know what economists make of the government's approach, which appears to focus on the reduction of the need for health care by employing a range of easily available genetic (and other) tests and then employing a preventative intervention.
For instance, you would need to pay for the treatment of numerous people for 5 yrs with a statin to prevent one hospital admission (NNT).
Statins vary widely in cost, but many are over £7 a month or maybe £400 for 5 years.
An admission for treatment of a heart attack is about £4000. The number needed to treat to prevent a heart attack over 5 years would have to be less than 10 for it to become economic.
What is the NNT here?
nobody studies drugs long term Brian: you seem agnostic on statins; they are another Pfarma fraud; these type of drug are given to the healthy; for a very short time; to those likely on no other drugs; then promptly certified as "Safe" to give to others taking up to to 10 other pills; and no-one studies the effects for long, long periods, to see the slow cognitive decline; to see the aches and pains statins so fiercely produce; the T2 diabetes etc etc
remember the formula; test on the young and healthy; then promptly claim safety and unleash unmonitored long-term on the ill and elderly;
James
Certainly sceptical of all purported preventative meds, including 'vaccines'. RCTs designed, implemented intrepretated by pharma the answer is predictable.
The RCT for statins for people with diabetes cost $24 million 2000 price level - there is no way that is not going pharma's way.
Don't forget statins don't prevent CVD - as the literature suggests they only reduce the risk. NHS very handy with their words eg prevent, safe, effective, prevents transmission others would call it dishonesty.
They reduce the relative risk by 50%. If the baseline risk is 5% then the absolute risk reduction is 2.5%, unless maths has followed the authors of this report through the looking glass. So not significant!
I believe you would have to give 5 years treatment to 10 people to cause one case of muscle inflamation, 40 people to prevent a heart attack, 50 people to cause a case of diabetes, 80 people to prevent one death and over 100 people to prevent one stroke.
https://share.google/XUJV7uykbzoNnsepB
Malcolm Kendrick wrote out the data: and for doing that, the Daily Mail attacked him; and in return got roundly sued for their article and found guilty, paying Dr Kendrick much cash for what they said; from memory, if someone took a statin for 5 yrs, Dr Kendrick suggested from data it might assure living a day or so longer; how one calculates that is beyond the wit of most people.
Interesting paper. It does make a presumption of benefit by lowering cholesterol but as I have said often this is simply an epiphenomenon (why? because drugs better at lowering cholesterol don't achieve better results with heart disease and anyway the statin effect is almost certainly because they are anti-inflammatory). Cholesterol deposition is not dependent on blood levels but occurs as part of a disordered healing process post-inflammation.
And there's a major caveat: "Virtually all of the major statin studies were paid for and conducted by their respective pharmaceutical company. A long history of misrepresentation of data and occasionally fraudulent reporting of data suggests that these results are often much more optimistic than subsequent data produced by researchers and parties that do not have a financial stake in the results. These additional studies may however take years. Also, harm from these drugs is difficult to predict, partly because harms are often difficult to anticipate and are often poorly tracked. Such findings often come up years after new drugs have been on the market."
"And there's a major caveat:
"Virtually all of the major statin studies were paid for and conducted by their respective pharmaceutical company.
A long history of
... misrepresentation of data
...and occasionally fraudulent reporting of data
.. suggests that these results are often much more optimistic than subsequent data produced by researchers and parties that do not have a financial stake in the results.
These additional studies may however take years.
Also, harm from these drugs is difficult to predict, partly because harms are often difficult to anticipate and are often poorly tracked. Such findings often come up years after new drugs have been on the market.""
...... layman's interpretation: don't trust a word these crooks say .......
Pfarma helps them craft the weasel words
Prevention - I see as code for more 'vaccines' nothing to do with Marmot type social determinants for health. Japan is on to saRNA - self amplifying RNA, apparently cheaper to make then use our bodes as manufacturing plants,
Clare Craig talk sets out the figures for mRNA as per September 2022, below, eg 230 over 80's vaccinated to prevent 1 death. She states that UKHSA using their own calculations came to the same conclusion in October 2022 - why wasn't the rollout stopped? I suggest the answer is commercial pressures on the Govt. Pharma can leave, patients can't. The conclusion I come to is to be even more careful of the source of my health advice, and I thought I was already selective !
' How many people would need to be vaccinated to prevent a single covid labelled death during the Delta wave?
The results were staggering:
230 over-80s to prevent one death
Thousands of 50-69 year olds
Tens of thousands of 30-49 yr olds
Nearly 100,000 18-30 yr olds
https://drclarecraig.substack.com/p/speech-at-together-event?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=1058256&post_id=167526452&utm_campaign=email-play-on-substack&utm_content=watch_now_gif&r=2gkrwp&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email
Good grief, the Health minister is employing graduates who use AI to compose their theses to write the 10 year plan!
The plan for NHS dentistry is even more vague and confusing as it involves 3 year shackles to the legs of graduates ( who are already paying for their studies ) to employ them in fictitious NHS practices that don't exist and to allow dental therapists to diagnose ( which is beyond their scope of practice currently, so even more bonkers than physician associates in medicine). I'm just relieved I'm retired and I'm feeling sympathy for those poor souls still at the coal face!
No wonder Carl and Tom are hitting the pub!
It's the same old bigtec will ride to the rescue again, and with AI (whatever that actually is) those set to profit from it will further bombard our poor (as in totally inept) politicians tasked it seems with keeping us healthy.
I mean we're all human beings who have the same immune systems which we know all about and stand to suffer from the same pathogens which again we know all about., courtesy of Pasteur, Koch, Rockefeller and bigpharma.
It wouldn't be so bad if those pesky pathogens actually behaved in the way accepted experts and bigpharma say they do but the reality is they do not - see the Riddle series. Unfortunately no politician seems able to grasp this hugely important and fundamental fact.
For AI to work even in the way these idiots intend, it will be necessary for there to be universal health passports detailing all your medical records/vaccine status. But it won't work simply because our knowledge of disease and human behaviour is poorly understood and even worse, misunderstood.
And as for predictive health based on genetic tests it seems no account has been taken of epigenetics? (copyright to Doorless Carp on that one).
Definitely nothing new, nor anything that was ever done successfully. The lack of success isnt helped by lack of long term investment or something newer and shinier coming along. I remember hearing presentation on "working upstream" to save or prevent, being presented 20 odd years ago. Early interventions that have worked have been sacrificed by the constant reforms and professional rivalries. The real growth in the NHS appears to be administration and managers.
Wes Streeting is a genius. He has transformed the "NHS plan is working , but send more money" message into "NHS plan is NOT working, but send more money". As Governor Pappy O'Donnell said to Everett McGill in O Brother, Where Art Thou? - he'll go far!
[He's also a creep that you wouldn't buy a used car from.]
Don't worry, geezers, Wes - he of the vituperative and 'hateful' Twitter messages - will soon move on to the next step up the greasy pole of politics when he takes over from the lachrymose and bag-eyed Complaints clerk, Rach.
STILL LOVING YOU BOTH , MOST ENDEARING AND HARD WORKING "OLD GEEZERS" IN MY LIFE .
ENJOY YOUR "REFRESHMENT" YOU BOTH MORE THAN DESERVE !!!!
XXXXXXXXX
John Bird covered this 20 yrs ago; an exciting new NHS project back then; a comprehensive IT project, run by really capable people
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd7ziJsnnvo
Thank you for this it provided a much needed laugh!
all we can do is laugh at these truly terrible people; it really strikes me: we could laugh 20 yrs ago at their folly and stupidity; now we somehow cannot challenge their absurdity; here 20+ yrs ago Bird and Fortune mocked the military: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nohGiQmOxlc we could laugh 25yrs ago: now we blindly bow to false gods; that woke soldiers can defeat others; oh, OK .......
I am laughing but hoping to see these criminals prosecuted. Oh just saw a pig fly by….what hope is there once any faith in democracy is totally defunct.
Dead bodies + blood sacrifice = Tony Blair. Tears rather than laughter in Hobbiton.
thanks guy; crazed ramblings of the intellectually bankrupt; word salads of nonsense; keep ignoring the central issues; keep creating further dysyhealth; keep on fattening the population as pig and cattle farmers fatten their livestock; (corn and carbs); then keep advocating this food (corn and carbs) as paradoxically healthy! Go on, you know it makes sense!!
the Wizard of OZ could not have dreamt up a worse scenario. Why on earth politicians fiddle with things which are beyond their ken, the Lord only knows. Looking at the health secretaries for the past 5+ years, makes you understand why the NHS is creaking at the foundations, for goodness sake find some General P's and let them loose.